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Page Hamilton
Patrick Kirst
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Brief list of credits (Page Hamilton)
Convergence, Sons of Liberty, The Phoenix Rises, Skyhook, The Crow, Heat,
Brief list of credits (Patrick Kirst)
Convergence, The proposal, Earth,
Do you guys ever get to collaborate in the same place or are you guys in different areas?
Page: Not so much. Patrick lived on the west side for ten years and I lived in Hollywood and then I moved to the west side and he moved to the east side. He’s like my little brother. I moved from New York to LA and my brother said I’m going to leave LA and move to Oregon. So I stalked these guys, my brother and Patrick, and they moved away. So yes, we mostly do separate stuff online and pass the work back and forth.
How would you describe your Convergence score in one sentence?
Awesome! When you put two geniuses together what comes out?! *laughs
What kind of vibe were you going for with this soundtrack?
Page: It’s a bit of a creepy horror icky thing. Patrick and I and Drew, agreed early on that I don’t want to do any emotional suite. I really like doing blood and guts and creepy. I’m really good at that. Anything that is beautiful and musical Patrick did, and anything that is noisy and scary I did. Those were my goals. Unfortunately the movie had some creepy scenes and I had to watch them over and over again. I was so bummed with anyone being restrained and knowing something awful was going to happen to them, it is always a very awful thing for me to see but it is a good thing for me to score.
Patrick: For me I focus on the emotional part of the movie. It is that kind of a supernatural quality there, mystical, mysterious; I feel very at home there. It was a good balance of the two and it was a perfect collaboration that I felt with the main title for example. It was aggressive and eerie and I would say nontraditional. I remember when we started writing the main title. I fell into the trap of doing something expected and normal with strings and a typical pattern. I have these other instruments around it and Drew said it was too normal for him. Just take the strings out and I said ok and I took all the strings out and everything you’d expect in that score. What was left was something very rhythmical and aggressive but also something very anticipating. It had a lot of cool tension in it and Page added his magic with doing very aggressive stabs at the electric guitar and textures. There are a lot of eerie textures when we work together. It was a very cool, fun collaboration when Page and I work together. It is a very relaxed and inspiring atmosphere, like being a kid in the candy store, exploring things together.
Where did each of you get the inspiration for the score?
Page: Well, every musical influence somehow creeps into your musical personality. As a writer, you would never consciously try to rob someone of their ideas. If a film doesn’t do it then you’re probably not dealing with a great film and in this instance we were stoked with what Drew had done. I thought the acting was great and the film had a super creepy quality to it that worked for me. Drew approached me years ago at a Helmet show and said he heard my music and wanted me involved in some way, and each movie has gotten progressively better over these four or five years.
We always spot the movie together via skype. Patrick, Drew, and I and sometimes an editor and sample guy would be there too. For the movie it was important to get into the character and understand the tone of the movie. Some characters’ have themes, like every time you saw the boots, it represented a creepy marching. It’s kind of like Stars Wars “bom bom bom da bom.” The boots were worn by the main creepy character. So you usually draw inspiration from the film itself. It’s your job to sometimes stay out of the way to increase the tension and other times to amp up the scene. You don’t want it to be about covering up mediocrity, in this case we are fortunate that was not the case. The actors did a great job. I love Drew’s take on this sort of religion and it’s got an interesting character. The three of us had a good time working on the film together.
Patrick: Yeah I agree with that. There is not that much to add. I agree that most of the inspiration I got is from the film itself. I pick a couple of scenes that I especially like. I like the emptiness of the hospital and the surreal quality that I could tap into. I look to something visually inspirational and motivating to explore and that would be how to express this empty surreal feeling of our main hero and his journey. How can that feeling of tension that is always “where he is going” and there is something very fascinating and intriguing that leads right away to some interesting color palettes and sounds. We talk about other scores and films that could be an inspiration but mostly it’s being a kid in a candy store trying to figure things out and play around.
Both of you have worked with Drew on a few projects and as you work on more projects with him. How does your process change? Does he give more creative freedom now and say run with it?
Page: I say yes. I think that from the beginning when he first approached me I told him about a friend I work with, Patrick, he is more familiar with this terrain. I would like to have a lot of creative freedom and not do film score 101. I think we checked each other sort of in that way. I’ll think of scores like Dead Man where it’s just Neil Young improvising electric guitar for the whole movie, I like that type of thing but you can’t do that for the whole film. But Patrick can score anything, so it is a good combination. Between the three of us, there is a dialogue. I always felt fairly free.
Patrick: I also feel like Drew is somebody who once really trusts you, lets you have a lot of freedom. He’s good at exploring material and moving it from one place to another, without micromanaging though. That’s the dream as far as just doing our thing and having trust and after five films done together it just shows that we have this really nice working relationship and everything is in a very positive vibe. Always. Drew is very passionate in everything he does, he’s also like a kid in a candy store, He’ll say “Oh that’s great can we do this over here” and I love that vibe and energy and that is such a great working environment. Also not to do everything, that is another good thing because I know where Page excels at. Here I’m giving him this action sequence he’ll let me do some more mystery, lyrical moment here, and so it’s a beautiful distribution of work. Also, I have to say over these last five years the films having getting better and better and now we have iTunes distribution for Convergence. It’s great working with indie filmmakers and going along for the ride as they get great reviews and all these people love the story.
What would you say your specialties and niches are?
Page: I feel honored to work with Patrick because he’s super experienced in great music. I sat in on his classes at USC and I think some of his students appreciated it, but some who are 18, 19, 20 years old, they don’t realize the incredible valuable information they are getting. Having been a musician going on 30 years for me, in the rock band context, it has been great for me. It’s similar to the work I’ve done with Elliot Goldenthal, you wouldn’t go in and say this guy has an obsession guitar playing kind of cat, you’re not going to go up and play Bach and sight read it or anything or play a car commercial. I bring a very unique thing to the table and Elliot recognized that and that’s why we have done so many movies with him and it’s a similar pattern he’s open minded. I got to work with Teddy Abrams this summer and he’s also very open minded classical guy with a classical background but he understands. So I think what I bring is not for everyone, I think some people think it’s a little too messy but I think in the case of Drew, like I said, he came to me and he enjoys that kind of world.
Patrick: Which I think is a super bold quality and especially with these films to have something so dry and in your face and ugly, but it’s beautiful ugly. I always thought there was so much beauty and destruction in all of it. For me it’s a great quality. I grew up with some jazz but I feel like an eclectic kind of a guy. I love string writing but I also love doing political cabaret shows in Germany and these kind of weird things and this jazz vocal ensemble that I was leading. Of course I like strings, lyrical, and anything orchestral are things I love. But I also like to explore with other nuggets of things, and so I guess that’s my whole thing with this trio.
Do you use any particular plug-ins or programs?
Patrick: Well, I do everything in Logic. We are flooded with samples and plug-ins and synthesized sounds. I think what I try to do is understand one of these things really, really well and then just apply that rather than trying to use presets on my hundreds of other plugs and synths. I like to go more deep than wide on these things.
Besides Logic, what is each of your go to instruments when you are composing?
Page: Well, I’m a guitarist so most of my stuff is guitar centered. I have five pedal boards, so that would have to be considered an instrument which I have honed over the years. Starting with the early days of Helmet is how I came up with my particular style. There’s noise involved and the guitar becomes a different instrument. I have a master’s degree in guitar so I understand harmony obviously, but it becomes about the sound. It’s remarkable how well orchestral tones like strings, woodwinds and brass work with the electric guitar, being a stringed instrument and a distorted guitar. We have been talking for a while about doing a piece, so that’s where I start. Though strings to me are very nice. All you need are two notes and an interval and you can tell if the tone is right for a scene I think, that’s my opinion.
Patrick: My main instrument is piano.
Patrick, do you ever learn anything from the students that you teach?
I learn a ton from my students. I learn what they’re struggling with, and I learn from that. I struggled with the exact same things back then, like 11, ten years ago. But there’s a certain system and you ask yourself, “What is it you that you’re really doing,“ so that you get a lot of clarity in your thinking, you get a lot of focus on your own music because you know systematically what are you doing, what are your methods, what are your tools, what is it that you’re looking for right now in your composing.. I see students struggle and then kind of be the doctor and just fix that stuff. That helps you obviously in manifesting these rules that exist, let’s say, the unspoken rules. I got very clear over the years about who I am actually as a composer by doing that and by defining certain things and certain rules. I’m actually in the process of writing these rules, the unspoken rules or methods down in a book for my students to read. But yeah, I learned a ton, that’s also great inspiration for me, and I thrive on their progress as well.
What would each of your dream projects be to score?
Page: I have this idea in my head, Patrick is going to be involved whether he likes it or not. With electric guitar and orchestra because nobody has used my chord voicing element that I have that has certain meaning to my band. That’s what I want to do. As far as scoring a film, there are many great scores that inspired us, I don’t know why but Cape Fear comes to mind, Bernard Herman I believe. It is both scary and creepy. Aaron Copland and The Red Pony has music that can stand on its own too.
Patrick: I agree. A remake of North by Northwest would be great. I would love that. I’m a big Herman fan, I love noire or any period drama. Those things are beautiful. Besides that I just enjoy music for its own purpose, and not just for film, it’s a great thing also. It is its own different animal. It uses different thinking. I have been thinking about making my own separate album. Maybe with some other elements and collaboration with Page; something that is unique in color choice that can go very dark and with expressive instruments which to me is my favorite orchestral element and instruments. I would like to explore that. To maybe fill up the whole room with cellos. And to see what textures you can do with exploring instruments. I love cello and I would love to, at some point, write an album or some other big, long piece.
Do you guys have any advice for upcoming composers?
Patrick: For me, trying to give advice, my main thing is to not lose focus. As an upcoming composer, find your niche and listen to yourself is always great advice. To see who you like and what you like. Find out what defines you and figure out the journey. On the other hand don’t take music so seriously. At 21, ONLY studying film music I think is not right. I always thought music is much grander and has much more to offer than can be told with just film music. So listen to jazz, become a full blooded musician. Immerse yourself in music, absorb it, eat it, drink it, make love to it every day, breathe that stuff and eat scores and breathe scores. Be passionate about music. Absorb music and stay true to yourself. Find out who you are in this jungle of composers and music makers, stay true to yourself. Don’t try to copy anybody else and allow yourself a lot of time. It takes a long time to explore and practice patience and endurance and you will get there.
Page: We are in the era of the internet and iPhones. I just read that our attention span has decreased from 12 seconds to 9 seconds, and a goldfish has one of 8 seconds, we are devolving (laughs). What Patrick said is incredibly important. Long forms of music that we all worship like Beethoven are important. We have a low attention span and all these kids singing American Idol or the Voice are just mimicking soul music. To me, they give them 60 seconds to sing part of a song and you can lose sight of music and what it provides to your soul and your brain. I do these camps like rock camps and guitar camps and I force feed kids jazz. It is important to know where the music comes from, and as Patrick said in school people become obsessed with film music or the work.
To me it’s not about the work, it’s about the music. You need to learn about melody, harmony, rhythm or text if you are writing lyrics and be a musician first with any good portion, the work will come to you. There are some composers that are only computer jockeys that don’t play any instruments. I have some friends that are huge rock stars but have lost their inspiration because they don’t play their instrument out of joy, they hire people to do it. For me personally that doesn’t sound interesting or exciting. I like the journey. I wake up every day and play guitar. Or if I’m working on a movie or writing a Helmet album or producing a band, I still allow myself to wake up every day and play jazz guitar for 2 hours if I’m really feeling irresponsible. At the end of the day I feel like it’s good to be irresponsible and not worry about the work first all the time.